Hi Tom, I sense that George Floyd's name touched a nerve.
My column was about the Dutch slave trade and the prime minister's apology and the reactions of my neighbors, friends, and fellow church members here in the Hague to that apology. I didn't mean to re-litigate the exact cause of Floyd's death, only to pass along the anecdote that Floyd's death caught the attention of the Dutch prime minister. Something about that death caused him to take racism more seriously than he had before.
This is an interesting article about how the justice system includes medical forensics from a wide range of 'experts - or not.
When we see the media (who I generally trust) take hold of an issue, sometimes their main motive can be to milk it for as long as possible, to make the most money out of the incident. Sometimes they may be motivated by seeing justice done, for sure. But, if George Floyd was combative because he had fentanyl in his system, and had a heart condition, that could have been the main reason he died. Of course, I am not condoning a police officer to put his knee on a suspect's neck for a half hour, but how do you subdue a 220 lb, 6' 5" combative person who is on drugs?
The people who have died at the hands of the police are sometimes law abiding people, and sometimes they are people with prior arrests who are resisting arrest. My point is that things may not be as awful as we think. If someone is resisting arrest, in my book, they are just asking for it. What I have always told my kids, is if you get stopped by the police, comply and be polite. That is a good way to avoid a problem. But if you are mouthing off and resisting arrest, you can probably expect to pay a price. Of course, the price should not be losing your life, but if you threaten a police officer who is carrying weapons, that is just a bad idea.
"Rulings on causes of death are often not cut-and-dried and can be controversial, especially in police-involved deaths such as the 2020 killing of George Floyd. In that case, Minnesota’s Hennepin County medical examiner ruled Floyd’s death a homicide but indicated a heart condition and the presence of fentanyl in his system may have been factors. Pathologists hired by Floyd’s family said he died from lack of oxygen when a police officer kneeled on his neck and back.
This is just to say that things are not always as they appear, and sometimes the news media tries to use something to get overall justice, but the case in point may not be the best example of unfair police action.
Thanks for your comments. When I lived abroad, I felt part of my reality was agreeing with the local people that Americans had a long way to go, but I was always proud of what we had accomplished. Compared to Europe in 1990, the US had in place a much fairer system, where no matter your background, you could get into college, and begin changing your destiny. At the time in Europe, it was still a very hierarchical system, and minorities were not encouraged, nor did they stand much of a chance.
The other part of my reality was realizing that most Europeans did not know the difference between Iowa, Ohio and Idaho, three very different places with populations and economies comparable to some countries in Europe. Ask some Dutch if they know where those states are, and what they are known for!
If I turn on a talk show on CNN or CNBC today, I see a strong, intelligent and articulate surge of people of color, who are accomplished in their fields and can represent the true strengths of their communities. 30 years ago in the US, whenever there was a racial incident, the usual community spokesmen were mostly civil rights and religious leaders who were the only people of color who were seen on serious talk shows. Today, thankfully, it is much different.
We are not going back, and I feel that the Ron DeSantis types are on their last gasps, desperately trying to hold onto their power. Yes I agree with you that people like him, and other right wing types are enjoying way too much power and influence now, but I feel that their grip is about to loosen. There are a number of very capable people who will step in to take power, and our country will finally become the land of the free and the home of the brave.
I am optimistic, but what I observe is a huge block of talent that is just coming of age. Those who are in their 30s now are soon going to be running things, and they have no appetite for the racist ways of the past. We are turning the corner, and although we still have way too many horirble incidents and negative movements, change is coming.
Thanks for this frank discussion about the Netherlands, and their role and recent public comments about the slave trade. It is refreshing and overdue, and I hope that more good results from these statements from the prime minister.
In the US, I feel that we have been educated since we were children about the slave trade, and the horrible conditions the slaves endured. I have visited the Underground Railroad museum in Cincinnati, OH, and it is excellent. I am not sure I agree with your statement, "In my own country we do not talk about our history because we are afraid of making school children uncomfortable.
I would be grateful if Americans could at least have the conversation."
For those readers who are not familiar with our recent US history on this topic, I feel that we have done a lot to begin to redress this situation.
I think I understand that you would like so to see more active discussions taken at the presidential and congressional levels, so that we could eventually take some action to try to right the wrongs, eventually maybe even some reparations. But, I believe that in the US, we are already seeing, and have already seen actions taken in this regard. Our affirmative action efforts in admissions to colleges has already resulted in many more students being able to attend university. Of course, we know those programs have recently be curtailed, but they did go on for decades.
There are many things in the US that we should feel ashamed about, but I don't think it is fair to say "In my own country we do not talk about our history because we are afraid of making school children uncomfortable." Not only have we talked about it constantly since the civil rights legislation of the 1960s, but we have taken numerous actions to try to right some of the wrongs. True, we have not done enough, but we have accomplished a lot.
Thank you, Tom, for this thoughtful response - and of course for being a regular reader. Thank you also for your willingness to engage, a willingness which seems to be missing from much public conversation these days.
I wish I could adopt your perspective, which seems to be: We've come a long way, we have some distance still to go, but we are making progress. Has American culture come a long way? Depends on who is answering the question. When I listen carefully to those who do not look like me, I sense that the perspective is very different.
And then there is that last part...about the progress we are making. In recent years, it seems to me, we going backwards, not forwards. My column of course refers to the new law in Florida which gives guidance to schools and teachers about how to teach matters of race and identity (which was the subject a previous column): https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/10/florida-legislature-passes-anti-woke-bill/
The article states that several other state legislatures are attempting to accomplish the same thing. All of this seems to me to be evidence that we as a country are headed in the wrong direction, that we would prefer not to have honest conversations about our past.
By the way, getting people to feel ashamed about their country is not the outcome I desire. There is plenty to feel proud of, and I do feel that pride. What I would like is that biblical vision of human flourishing, where all are able to life their lives fully, where no one is left behind. An honest reckoning with our past is, I believe, one way to get there.
Amen! And, of course, what of the children whose ancestors were brought here as slaves? What of THEIR feelings when it's not even acknowledged? Kudos to those who take on the hard conversations!
Hi Tom, I sense that George Floyd's name touched a nerve.
My column was about the Dutch slave trade and the prime minister's apology and the reactions of my neighbors, friends, and fellow church members here in the Hague to that apology. I didn't mean to re-litigate the exact cause of Floyd's death, only to pass along the anecdote that Floyd's death caught the attention of the Dutch prime minister. Something about that death caused him to take racism more seriously than he had before.
Hi Doug,
This is an interesting article about how the justice system includes medical forensics from a wide range of 'experts - or not.
When we see the media (who I generally trust) take hold of an issue, sometimes their main motive can be to milk it for as long as possible, to make the most money out of the incident. Sometimes they may be motivated by seeing justice done, for sure. But, if George Floyd was combative because he had fentanyl in his system, and had a heart condition, that could have been the main reason he died. Of course, I am not condoning a police officer to put his knee on a suspect's neck for a half hour, but how do you subdue a 220 lb, 6' 5" combative person who is on drugs?
The people who have died at the hands of the police are sometimes law abiding people, and sometimes they are people with prior arrests who are resisting arrest. My point is that things may not be as awful as we think. If someone is resisting arrest, in my book, they are just asking for it. What I have always told my kids, is if you get stopped by the police, comply and be polite. That is a good way to avoid a problem. But if you are mouthing off and resisting arrest, you can probably expect to pay a price. Of course, the price should not be losing your life, but if you threaten a police officer who is carrying weapons, that is just a bad idea.
"Rulings on causes of death are often not cut-and-dried and can be controversial, especially in police-involved deaths such as the 2020 killing of George Floyd. In that case, Minnesota’s Hennepin County medical examiner ruled Floyd’s death a homicide but indicated a heart condition and the presence of fentanyl in his system may have been factors. Pathologists hired by Floyd’s family said he died from lack of oxygen when a police officer kneeled on his neck and back.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/30/health/coroners-cause-of-death-khn-partner/index.html
This is just to say that things are not always as they appear, and sometimes the news media tries to use something to get overall justice, but the case in point may not be the best example of unfair police action.
Tom
Hi Doug,
Thanks for your comments. When I lived abroad, I felt part of my reality was agreeing with the local people that Americans had a long way to go, but I was always proud of what we had accomplished. Compared to Europe in 1990, the US had in place a much fairer system, where no matter your background, you could get into college, and begin changing your destiny. At the time in Europe, it was still a very hierarchical system, and minorities were not encouraged, nor did they stand much of a chance.
The other part of my reality was realizing that most Europeans did not know the difference between Iowa, Ohio and Idaho, three very different places with populations and economies comparable to some countries in Europe. Ask some Dutch if they know where those states are, and what they are known for!
If I turn on a talk show on CNN or CNBC today, I see a strong, intelligent and articulate surge of people of color, who are accomplished in their fields and can represent the true strengths of their communities. 30 years ago in the US, whenever there was a racial incident, the usual community spokesmen were mostly civil rights and religious leaders who were the only people of color who were seen on serious talk shows. Today, thankfully, it is much different.
We are not going back, and I feel that the Ron DeSantis types are on their last gasps, desperately trying to hold onto their power. Yes I agree with you that people like him, and other right wing types are enjoying way too much power and influence now, but I feel that their grip is about to loosen. There are a number of very capable people who will step in to take power, and our country will finally become the land of the free and the home of the brave.
I am optimistic, but what I observe is a huge block of talent that is just coming of age. Those who are in their 30s now are soon going to be running things, and they have no appetite for the racist ways of the past. We are turning the corner, and although we still have way too many horirble incidents and negative movements, change is coming.
Tom
"I would be grateful if Americans could at least have the conversation."
Amen!
Thanks for the historical perspective Doug. Kathy an I have been in The Netherlands several times and didn’t dig deep enough into their history.
Hi Doug,
Thanks for this frank discussion about the Netherlands, and their role and recent public comments about the slave trade. It is refreshing and overdue, and I hope that more good results from these statements from the prime minister.
In the US, I feel that we have been educated since we were children about the slave trade, and the horrible conditions the slaves endured. I have visited the Underground Railroad museum in Cincinnati, OH, and it is excellent. I am not sure I agree with your statement, "In my own country we do not talk about our history because we are afraid of making school children uncomfortable.
I would be grateful if Americans could at least have the conversation."
For those readers who are not familiar with our recent US history on this topic, I feel that we have done a lot to begin to redress this situation.
I think I understand that you would like so to see more active discussions taken at the presidential and congressional levels, so that we could eventually take some action to try to right the wrongs, eventually maybe even some reparations. But, I believe that in the US, we are already seeing, and have already seen actions taken in this regard. Our affirmative action efforts in admissions to colleges has already resulted in many more students being able to attend university. Of course, we know those programs have recently be curtailed, but they did go on for decades.
Also, recently there have been some reparations made to those whose property was seized, most notably the June 22, 2022 report of a black family's descendants in Manhattan Beach, CA whose property was returned. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bruces-beach-california-land-taken-from-black-couple-returned-to-heirs/ and https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/29/california-returns-beachfront-property-taken-black-couple-bruces-beach
There are many things in the US that we should feel ashamed about, but I don't think it is fair to say "In my own country we do not talk about our history because we are afraid of making school children uncomfortable." Not only have we talked about it constantly since the civil rights legislation of the 1960s, but we have taken numerous actions to try to right some of the wrongs. True, we have not done enough, but we have accomplished a lot.
Thank you, Tom, for this thoughtful response - and of course for being a regular reader. Thank you also for your willingness to engage, a willingness which seems to be missing from much public conversation these days.
I wish I could adopt your perspective, which seems to be: We've come a long way, we have some distance still to go, but we are making progress. Has American culture come a long way? Depends on who is answering the question. When I listen carefully to those who do not look like me, I sense that the perspective is very different.
And then there is that last part...about the progress we are making. In recent years, it seems to me, we going backwards, not forwards. My column of course refers to the new law in Florida which gives guidance to schools and teachers about how to teach matters of race and identity (which was the subject a previous column): https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/10/florida-legislature-passes-anti-woke-bill/
The article states that several other state legislatures are attempting to accomplish the same thing. All of this seems to me to be evidence that we as a country are headed in the wrong direction, that we would prefer not to have honest conversations about our past.
By the way, getting people to feel ashamed about their country is not the outcome I desire. There is plenty to feel proud of, and I do feel that pride. What I would like is that biblical vision of human flourishing, where all are able to life their lives fully, where no one is left behind. An honest reckoning with our past is, I believe, one way to get there.
Again, thank you for taking the time to write!
Amen! And, of course, what of the children whose ancestors were brought here as slaves? What of THEIR feelings when it's not even acknowledged? Kudos to those who take on the hard conversations!